[MlMt] mailmate Digest, Vol 81, Issue 14

[Tracy Valleau]

> Neither of which, though, do "versioned" backups like TM does, right?
> You only get the most recent "snapshot" of the drive, not any history 
> of
> any items?
>

Wrong.

Chronosync will do -better- than TM at keeping "versions". You can set 
it to specifically track only certain files or folders; set it to back 
up as often as you like (every 5 minutes? every 20 minutes? Whatever you 
like.)

It doesn't have the too-cute Starwars interface, but it works just fine.


Tracy
www.valleau.art




On 14 Dec 2017, at 10:18, mailmate-request at lists.freron.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
>       (Tracy Valleau)
>    2. Re: . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
>       (Rob Willett)
>    3. Re: . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
>       (Randall Meadows)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:44:04 -0800
> From: "Tracy Valleau" <tracy at dlsi.biz>
> To: mailmate at lists.freron.com
> Subject: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.
> Message-ID: <1959B184-8C4F-4737-B157-BD7A0E7B318F at dlsi.biz>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM years
> ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and
> horrible reliability.
>
> You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which
> offers a mimicking of TM.
>
> Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.
> Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.
>
> Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of
> granularity.
>
>
> Tracy
> www.valleau.art
>
>
>
>
> On 14 Dec 2017, at 9:00, mailmate-request at lists.freron.com wrote:
>
>> Send mailmate mailing list submissions to
>> 	mailmate at lists.freron.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> 	https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> 	mailmate-request at lists.freron.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> 	mailmate-owner at lists.freron.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of mailmate digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate... (Roger
>> Bohn)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:45:44 -0800
>> From: "Roger Bohn" <Rbohn at ucsd.edu>
>> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
>> Subject: Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...
>> Message-ID: <4355C63B-7270-4D4A-B4B8-B45D276873E0 at ucsd.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got MailMate.
>> The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
>> inexplicable stalls. I say
>>> "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU,
>>> network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*.
>>
>> The problem is worse, the more Time Machine needs to back up. And for
>> reasons I have never figured out, even a routine backup on TM (of a
>> few
>> hours of material) can have 5GB of files to go through. As a result, 
>> I
>> can get into a situation where TM is completely unable to get up to
>> date.
>>
>> So I don’t know a solution, but don’t be too sure that it is
>> really
>> due to MM. If anyone finds a solution, please drop me a line!
>>    One thing that helps is to switch from WiFi to a hard ethernet
>> connection. For some reason, TM is considerably faster that way.
>>
>>   Roger Bohn, UC San Diego
>> Rbohn at ucsd.edu
>>
>> On 10 Dec 2017, at 18:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
>>
>>> Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses
>>> MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine
>>> performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which
>>> has
>>> a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble.
>>>
>>> The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
>>> inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor
>>> shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the 
>>> backup
>>> just *stops*. I normally don't run MailMate on one of the laptops;
>>> its
>>> backups complete in a rational amount of time. When I do, it sees 
>>> the
>>> same stalls. In fact, I'm running MailMate on it right now so that I
>>> can see what happens on my primary laptop when I exit MailMate. Sure
>>> enough, that machine is now behaving.
>>>
>>> My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large
>>> directories
>>> on APFS file systems, but I don't know that for sure. I have some
>>> very
>>> large mailboxes, though, and these are of course active when 
>>> MailMate
>>> is running.  And of course, that doesn't explain why I don't see any
>>> system activity.
>>>
>>> Is anyone else seeing this? Does anyone have any work-arounds, other
>>> than "don't have such large mailboxes" or "don't run APFS"? I do 
>>> have
>>> a new laptop on order; I'm seriously tempted to reformat it as HFS+
>>> before I start using it.
>>>
>>>
>>>         --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mailmate mailing list
>>> mailmate at lists.freron.com
>>> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
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> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:05:48 +0000
> From: "Rob Willett" <rob.mailmate at robertwillett.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and
> 	MailMate.
> Message-ID: <59E616A3-F056-4E66-87C7-D3C3FD2E3E24 at robertwillett.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> I can only second what Tracey says.
>
> I use Carbon Copy Cloner AND Chronosync as they have slightly 
> different
> use cases. I tend to use Chronosync for full archived backups and CCC
> for disk clones but thats just me. I suspect I could use only one 
> system
> and be very happy.
>
> I have had too many issues with TM and it's no longer allowed to be 
> used
> on any Mac I own.
>
> Rob
>
> On 14 Dec 2017, at 17:44, Tracy Valleau wrote:
>
>> As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM 
>> years
>> ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and
>> horrible reliability.
>>
>> You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which
>> offers a mimicking of TM.
>>
>> Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.
>> Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.
>>
>> Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of
>> granularity.
>>
>>
>> Tracy
>> www.valleau.art
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14 Dec 2017, at 9:00, mailmate-request at lists.freron.com wrote:
>>
>>> Send mailmate mailing list submissions to
>>> 	mailmate at lists.freron.com
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> 	https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>> 	mailmate-request at lists.freron.com
>>>
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>> 	mailmate-owner at lists.freron.com
>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of mailmate digest..."
>>>
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>>    1. Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate... (Roger
>>> Bohn)
>>>
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:45:44 -0800
>>> From: "Roger Bohn" <Rbohn at ucsd.edu>
>>> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...
>>> Message-ID: <4355C63B-7270-4D4A-B4B8-B45D276873E0 at ucsd.edu>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>>
>>> I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got 
>>> MailMate.
>>> The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
>>> inexplicable stalls. I say
>>>> "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU,
>>>> network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*.
>>>
>>> The problem is worse, the more Time Machine needs to back up. And 
>>> for
>>> reasons I have never figured out, even a routine backup on TM (of a
>>> few
>>> hours of material) can have 5GB of files to go through. As a result,
>>> I
>>> can get into a situation where TM is completely unable to get up to
>>> date.
>>>
>>> So I don’t know a solution, but don’t be too sure that it is
>>> really
>>> due to MM. If anyone finds a solution, please drop me a line!
>>>    One thing that helps is to switch from WiFi to a hard ethernet
>>> connection. For some reason, TM is considerably faster that way.
>>>
>>>   Roger Bohn, UC San Diego
>>> Rbohn at ucsd.edu
>>>
>>> On 10 Dec 2017, at 18:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:
>>>
>>>> Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses
>>>> MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine
>>>> performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which
>>>> has
>>>> a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble.
>>>>
>>>> The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,
>>>> inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor
>>>> shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the
>>>> backup
>>>> just *stops*. I normally don't run MailMate on one of the laptops;
>>>> its
>>>> backups complete in a rational amount of time. When I do, it sees
>>>> the
>>>> same stalls. In fact, I'm running MailMate on it right now so that 
>>>> I
>>>> can see what happens on my primary laptop when I exit MailMate. 
>>>> Sure
>>>> enough, that machine is now behaving.
>>>>
>>>> My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large
>>>> directories
>>>> on APFS file systems, but I don't know that for sure. I have some
>>>> very
>>>> large mailboxes, though, and these are of course active when
>>>> MailMate
>>>> is running.  And of course, that doesn't explain why I don't see 
>>>> any
>>>> system activity.
>>>>
>>>> Is anyone else seeing this? Does anyone have any work-arounds, 
>>>> other
>>>> than "don't have such large mailboxes" or "don't run APFS"? I do
>>>> have
>>>> a new laptop on order; I'm seriously tempted to reformat it as HFS+
>>>> before I start using it.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> mailmate mailing list
>>>> mailmate at lists.freron.com
>>>> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
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>>>
>>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> mailmate mailing list
>>> mailmate at lists.freron.com
>>> https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of mailmate Digest, Vol 81, Issue 13
>>> ****************************************
>
>
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>> mailmate at lists.freron.com
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> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:18:28 -0700
> From: "Randall Meadows" <randy.meadows at not-pc.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and
> 	MailMate.
> Message-ID: <7E3FD965-9578-4FA8-A797-70502CDC5859 at not-pc.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 14 Dec 2017, at 10:44, Tracy Valleau wrote:
>
>> As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM 
>> years
>> ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and
>> horrible reliability.
>>
>> You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which
>> offers a mimicking of TM.
>>
>> Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.
>> Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.
>>
>> Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of
>> granularity.
>
> Neither of which, though, do "versioned" backups like TM does, right?
> You only get the most recent "snapshot" of the drive, not any history 
> of
> any items?
>
> (I use CCC nightly for a quick-recovery in case of major disk failure,
> and TM to save my butt when I do something silly in `git`...)
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>
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