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<div style="font-family:sans-serif"><div style="white-space:normal"><br><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><p dir="auto">Neither of which, though, do "versioned" backups like TM does, right?<br>
You only get the most recent "snapshot" of the drive, not any history of<br>
any items?<br>
</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">Wrong.</p>
<p dir="auto">Chronosync will do -better- than TM at keeping "versions". You can set it to specifically track only certain files or folders; set it to back up as often as you like (every 5 minutes? every 20 minutes? Whatever you like.)</p>
<p dir="auto">It doesn't have the too-cute Starwars interface, but it works just fine.</p>
<br><p dir="auto">Tracy<br>
www.valleau.art</p>
<br><br><br><p dir="auto">On 14 Dec 2017, at 10:18, mailmate-request@lists.freron.com wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><p dir="auto">Send mailmate mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.<br>
(Tracy Valleau)<br>
2. Re: . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.<br>
(Rob Willett)<br>
3. Re: . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.<br>
(Randall Meadows)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 09:44:04 -0800<br>
From: "Tracy Valleau" <tracy@dlsi.biz><br>
To: mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
Subject: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate.<br>
Message-ID: <1959B184-8C4F-4737-B157-BD7A0E7B318F@dlsi.biz><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM years<br>
ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and<br>
horrible reliability.<br>
<br>
You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which<br>
offers a mimicking of TM.<br>
<br>
Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.<br>
Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.<br>
<br>
Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of<br>
granularity.<br>
<br>
<br>
Tracy<br>
www.valleau.art<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 14 Dec 2017, at 9:00, mailmate-request@lists.freron.com wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Send mailmate mailing list submissions to<br>
mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
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You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of mailmate digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate... (Roger<br>
Bohn)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:45:44 -0800<br>
From: "Roger Bohn" <Rbohn@ucsd.edu><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...<br>
Message-ID: <4355C63B-7270-4D4A-B4B8-B45D276873E0@ucsd.edu><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got MailMate.<br>
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,<br>
inexplicable stalls. I say</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">"inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU,<br>
network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">The problem is worse, the more Time Machine needs to back up. And for<br>
reasons I have never figured out, even a routine backup on TM (of a<br>
few<br>
hours of material) can have 5GB of files to go through. As a result, I<br>
can get into a situation where TM is completely unable to get up to<br>
date.<br>
<br>
So I don’t know a solution, but don’t be too sure that it is<br>
really<br>
due to MM. If anyone finds a solution, please drop me a line!<br>
One thing that helps is to switch from WiFi to a hard ethernet<br>
connection. For some reason, TM is considerably faster that way.<br>
<br>
Roger Bohn, UC San Diego<br>
Rbohn@ucsd.edu<br>
<br>
On 10 Dec 2017, at 18:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses<br>
MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine<br>
performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which<br>
has<br>
a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble.<br>
<br>
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,<br>
inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor<br>
shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the backup<br>
just *stops*. I normally don't run MailMate on one of the laptops;<br>
its<br>
backups complete in a rational amount of time. When I do, it sees the<br>
same stalls. In fact, I'm running MailMate on it right now so that I<br>
can see what happens on my primary laptop when I exit MailMate. Sure<br>
enough, that machine is now behaving.<br>
<br>
My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large<br>
directories<br>
on APFS file systems, but I don't know that for sure. I have some<br>
very<br>
large mailboxes, though, and these are of course active when MailMate<br>
is running. And of course, that doesn't explain why I don't see any<br>
system activity.<br>
<br>
Is anyone else seeing this? Does anyone have any work-arounds, other<br>
than "don't have such large mailboxes" or "don't run APFS"? I do have<br>
a new laptop on order; I'm seriously tempted to reformat it as HFS+<br>
before I start using it.<br>
<br>
<br>
--Steve Bellovin, <a href="https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb" style="color:#BBB">https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
mailmate mailing list<br>
mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
<a href="https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate" style="color:#BBB">https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate</a></p>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 18:05:48 +0000<br>
From: "Rob Willett" <rob.mailmate@robertwillett.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and<br>
MailMate.<br>
Message-ID: <59E616A3-F056-4E66-87C7-D3C3FD2E3E24@robertwillett.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
I can only second what Tracey says.<br>
<br>
I use Carbon Copy Cloner AND Chronosync as they have slightly different<br>
use cases. I tend to use Chronosync for full archived backups and CCC<br>
for disk clones but thats just me. I suspect I could use only one system<br>
and be very happy.<br>
<br>
I have had too many issues with TM and it's no longer allowed to be used<br>
on any Mac I own.<br>
<br>
Rob<br>
<br>
On 14 Dec 2017, at 17:44, Tracy Valleau wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM years<br>
ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and<br>
horrible reliability.<br>
<br>
You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which<br>
offers a mimicking of TM.<br>
<br>
Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.<br>
Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.<br>
<br>
Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of<br>
granularity.<br>
<br>
<br>
Tracy<br>
www.valleau.art<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 14 Dec 2017, at 9:00, mailmate-request@lists.freron.com wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Send mailmate mailing list submissions to<br>
mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
<br>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit<br>
<a href="https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate" style="color:#BBB">https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate</a><br>
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to<br>
mailmate-request@lists.freron.com<br>
<br>
You can reach the person managing the list at<br>
mailmate-owner@lists.freron.com<br>
<br>
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific<br>
than "Re: Contents of mailmate digest..."<br>
<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate... (Roger<br>
Bohn)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 09:45:44 -0800<br>
From: "Roger Bohn" <Rbohn@ucsd.edu><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and MailMate...<br>
Message-ID: <4355C63B-7270-4D4A-B4B8-B45D276873E0@ucsd.edu><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
I have had this situation for many YEARS, long before I got MailMate.<br>
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,<br>
inexplicable stalls. I say</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">"inexplicable" because Activity Monitor shows essentially no CPU,<br>
network, or disk activity -- but the backup just *stops*.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">The problem is worse, the more Time Machine needs to back up. And for<br>
reasons I have never figured out, even a routine backup on TM (of a<br>
few<br>
hours of material) can have 5GB of files to go through. As a result,<br>
I<br>
can get into a situation where TM is completely unable to get up to<br>
date.<br>
<br>
So I don’t know a solution, but don’t be too sure that it is<br>
really<br>
due to MM. If anyone finds a solution, please drop me a line!<br>
One thing that helps is to switch from WiFi to a hard ethernet<br>
connection. For some reason, TM is considerably faster that way.<br>
<br>
Roger Bohn, UC San Diego<br>
Rbohn@ucsd.edu<br>
<br>
On 10 Dec 2017, at 18:14, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Seems like an improbable subject line--but is anyone else who uses<br>
MailMate on High Sierra/APFS suddenly having serious Time Machine<br>
performance issues? I am, on two different laptops. An iMac, which<br>
has<br>
a hard drive and hence HFS+, is not having any trouble.<br>
<br>
The overall symptom is that backups take *many hours*, with sudden,<br>
inexplicable stalls. I say "inexplicable" because Activity Monitor<br>
shows essentially no CPU, network, or disk activity -- but the<br>
backup<br>
just *stops*. I normally don't run MailMate on one of the laptops;<br>
its<br>
backups complete in a rational amount of time. When I do, it sees<br>
the<br>
same stalls. In fact, I'm running MailMate on it right now so that I<br>
can see what happens on my primary laptop when I exit MailMate. Sure<br>
enough, that machine is now behaving.<br>
<br>
My suspicion is that the problem has to do with very large<br>
directories<br>
on APFS file systems, but I don't know that for sure. I have some<br>
very<br>
large mailboxes, though, and these are of course active when<br>
MailMate<br>
is running. And of course, that doesn't explain why I don't see any<br>
system activity.<br>
<br>
Is anyone else seeing this? Does anyone have any work-arounds, other<br>
than "don't have such large mailboxes" or "don't run APFS"? I do<br>
have<br>
a new laptop on order; I'm seriously tempted to reformat it as HFS+<br>
before I start using it.<br>
<br>
<br>
--Steve Bellovin, <a href="https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb" style="color:#BBB">https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb</a><br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
mailmate mailing list<br>
mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
<a href="https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate" style="color:#BBB">https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate</a></p>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of mailmate Digest, Vol 81, Issue 13<br>
****************************************</p>
</blockquote></blockquote><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">_______________________________________________<br>
mailmate mailing list<br>
mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 11:18:28 -0700<br>
From: "Randall Meadows" <randy.meadows@not-pc.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] . Re: High Sierra, APFS, Time Machine, and<br>
MailMate.<br>
Message-ID: <7E3FD965-9578-4FA8-A797-70502CDC5859@not-pc.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
On 14 Dec 2017, at 10:44, Tracy Valleau wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">As an Apple Developer since 1978, I can say that I quit using TM years<br>
ago. It is a consumer-level product, with modest capabilities and<br>
horrible reliability.<br>
<br>
You asked for a solution. You need more robust backup software, which<br>
offers a mimicking of TM.<br>
<br>
Two extremely reliable options are Carbon Copy Cloner and Chronosync.<br>
Both can be configured to run automatically whenever you like.<br>
<br>
Chronosync is extremely versatile, and can out-do TM in its level of<br>
granularity.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">Neither of which, though, do "versioned" backups like TM does, right?<br>
You only get the most recent "snapshot" of the drive, not any history of<br>
any items?<br>
<br>
(I use CCC nightly for a quick-recovery in case of major disk failure,<br>
and TM to save my butt when I do something silly in `git`...)<br>
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<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
End of mailmate Digest, Vol 81, Issue 14<br>
****************************************</p>
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