[MlMt] quoted-printable

[Daniel Torrecillas]

>> I only looked into this issue when someone that reads my email
>> *exclusively* on their iPhone with Mail.app complained about the
>> seemingly arbitrary line breaks.
>
> I just tried reviewing some of the emails on this mailing list on my
> iPhone and I don't see any arbitrary line breaks. Are you absolutely
> sure about this?

I can't believe this, but I nor my friend can't reproduce the behavior I 
was seeing originally. I did recently upgrade my phone version, so that 
may have been it or I'm just losing my mind. Sorry.

>> To please them, I would consider composing `quoted-printable` or
>> `base64` email only to them, if given the option in MailMate.
>
> Ok, I'll consider a hidden preference to disable format-flowed, but 
> I'd
> like you to first investigate the problem a bit more. Maybe something
> else triggers the arbitrary line breaks, for example, maybe your
> correspondent has an IMAP service which some times rewrites emails.
> Perhaps he could do something similar to “Message > Forward as
> Attachment”  in order for you to make sure the email hasn't changed 
> in
> transmission.

Disregard. Sorry again, I can't explain or reproduce what I (thought) I 
had seen. But I'll keep those things in mind if there's a next time. 
Maybe mine (Fastmail) or my friend's (Exchange) IMAP service did rewrite 
just those emails...

-- 
Daniel

On Feb 20 2018, at 2:30 AM, mailmate-request at lists.freron.com wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Does MailMate mirror everything back to the server?
>       (Fredrik Jonsson)
>    2. Re: newbie (Fredrik Jonsson)
>    3. Re: double sent mail outlook.com (Benny Kjær Nielsen)
>    4. Re: Old email not shown in smart mailboxes (Benny Kjær Nielsen)
>    5. Re: How to edit recipients (Benny Kjær Nielsen)
>    6. Re: option to automatically jump to first unread message of
>       thread (Benny Kjær Nielsen)
>    7. Re: quoted-printable (Benny Kjær Nielsen)
>    8. Re: Inconsistent message thread display (Benny Kjær Nielsen)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 09:02:42 +0100
> From: "Fredrik Jonsson" <frjo at xdeb.org>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] Does MailMate mirror everything back to the
> 	server?
> Message-ID: <E34B75ED-62AC-437F-98B6-26FD51F94AB4 at xdeb.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
> Ron Britton 2018-02-20 4:42 wrote:
>
>> If I were to use MailMate, where would my emails reside?
>
> On the server with a local cache in MailMate on your computer.
>
> The local cache will stay in sync with the server. If you delete mail 
> on
> the server MailMate will delete it locally as well.
>
>> What if I want to keep the server empty?
>
> Then IMAP and MailMate is not for you.
>
> But I would reconsider that if I was you. Providers like Runbox 
> (Norway)
> and Fastmail (Australia) have gotten good grades here on this list.
>
> * <https://runbox.com/>
> * <https://www.fastmail.com/>
>
> If I was not running my own server I would most likely go with Runbox
> since I'm in Sweden.
>
> Fredrik
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 09:21:18 +0100
> From: "Fredrik Jonsson" <frjo at xdeb.org>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] newbie
> Message-ID: <ED778902-7CDE-4EC5-80C9-2D7A1630712C at xdeb.org>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Brad & Michele Worthington 2018-02-20 3:15 wrote:
>
>> The messages don’t arrive with any specific subject lines or from
>> address so setting up smart boxes doesn’t seem feasible. I want to
>> read them, deal with them and move them to say 2018 a, or March b
>> folder for example.
>
> I would suggest:
>
> * Set up tags for each project.
> * Set up a smart folder for each project/tag.
> * Set up custom keybindings for each project/tag that tag the mail and
> archive it.
>
> This way everything arrives in to your inbox. You read the mail and 
> then
> press the key(s) you mapped for that project/tag.
>
> This will tag the mail and archive it, removing it from the inbox. 
> When
> you are done the inbox is empty and all the mail can be viewed it the
> correct project (smart) folder.
>
> If you don't have to many projects you could bind the actions to a
> single key of your choice, like this:
>
>      "a" = ( "setTag:", "Aproject", "archive:" );
>      "b" = ( "setTag:", "Bproject", "archive:" );
>      "c" = ( "setTag:", "Cproject", "archive:" );
>      "d" = ( "setTag:", "Dproject", "archive:" );
>      "e" = ( "setTag:", "Eproject", "archive:" );
>
> Fredrik
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:44:46 +0100
> From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist at freron.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] double sent mail outlook.com
> Message-ID: <96E2AE84-93CE-4F02-B940-76161D0EC434 at freron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 5 Feb 2018, at 7:48, Angelo Machils wrote:
>
> Sorry about the late response.
>
>> No, it's on the server that I see the second copy of the sent email. 
>> A
>> little later it also shows up in MailMate.
>
> Ok, that does sound like Outlook is saving emails sent with SMTP.
>
>> I can't find any setting in outlook.com to that effect, and even if
>> there were such a setting, it would be not of a lot of use. Because
>> when I have to use the webmail, the sent mail would not be saved.
>
> No, the setting I'm looking for is something like: “Don't save 
> copies
> in IMAP account when email clients use SMTP.” Most often, SMTP and
> IMAP are completely separate things and this wouldn't be an issue at
> all. It is the client's responsibility to save sent messages. Some 
> email
> servers are now “smarter”, but it's badly standardized and not 
> quite
> clear how an email client should behave. Since Gmail does this then 
> one
> could argue that it's now the norm, but I don't consider Gmail 
> standard
> in any way ;-)
>
> (What webmail does is irrelevant since webmail is its own client and 
> it
> should naturally always save sent messages.)
>
> Technically, I believe the underlying bandwidth optimization problem 
> is
> better solved by [this RFC](https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4468), but
> MailMate doesn't support this extension and I'm actually not sure if 
> or
> how many SMTP servers support it.
>
>> Isn't there a settings in MailMate where I can turn off saving sent
>> mails per account?
>
> No, and it's partly because I'm unsure how to implement it without
> risking losing sent messages. I would prefer a solution which ensures
> that MailMate doesn't delete it until it has found and downloaded the
> copy saved by the server. This includes verifying that it's an 
> identical
> copy, for example, Gmail some times rewrites headers and I'll be 
> blamed
> for that if MailMate doesn't somehow record what it really sent.
>
> In other words, I would prefer a feature like “Detect and delete
> duplicates” (for Sent Messages) rather than “Don't save sent
> messages”, but in practice the first is just a safer variant of the
> latter.
>
> But the answer is still: No, MailMate does not currently have the
> feature you are looking for.
>
> -- 
> Benny
> https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/
>
>> On Sun, Feb 4, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Benny Kjær Nielsen
>> <mailinglist at freron.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 4 Feb 2018, at 9:43, Angelo Machils wrote:
>>>
>>> When I sent an email through my Hotmail account, it turns out that 
>>> on
>>> the
>>>> server for every sent mail, there is a second copy. MailMate
>>>> doesn’t show
>>>> this second copy in the Sent folder, but I just found out that on
>>>> the
>>>> web-app for outlook.com, every sent mail has a second copy.
>>>>
>>>> Can I change this behaviour somewhere?
>>>>
>>>
>>> If it's because the server saves a copy in the mailbox for sent
>>> messages
>>> then there might be a server setting to prevent this.
>>>
>>> Since you cannot see both copies in webmail then I also suspect that
>>> there
>>> is a synchronization issue. Check that the mailbox for sent messages
>>> is
>>> online when you look at it under SOURCES in the mailbox list. (It's
>>> not
>>> online if it's greyed out.)
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:49:03 +0100
> From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist at freron.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] Old email not shown in smart mailboxes
> Message-ID: <F50DCEDD-4563-4A62-914B-DE31ECF20A07 at freron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 6 Feb 2018, at 11:47, Wojciech Ogrodowczyk wrote:
>
>> I wanted to clarify a bit more the case when sending you the file, 
>> but
>> I realised that the messages disappearing from the smart mailboxes is
>> just a symptom. The real issue is that all of those smart mailboxes
>> are based on tags and I've just checked that those tags disappear 
>> from
>> older messages.
>>
>> Do you have an idea how I could further debug this issue? Whether it
>> might be something in MailMate configuration, or rather my email
>> provider's (Mailbox.org) fault?
>
> Not all servers have great support for IMAP keywords (which are used 
> for
> the implementation of tags). Worst-case they should work locally, but
> they won't synchronize to the server.
>
> To debug this then it's best if you can come up with a series of steps
> to reproduce one or more problems. Then do the following:
>
> * Open the Activity Viewer (⌥⌘0).
> * Do the steps needed to reproduce an issue.
> * Use “Help ▸ Send Server Logs” -- and tell me what you were
> trying to do.
>
> Then I can probably see if MailMate does something unexpected.
>
> -- 
> Benny
> https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 10:58:05 +0100
> From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist at freron.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] How to edit recipients
> Message-ID: <2F775AED-A6AD-4F1B-B10A-936C61BF10E6 at freron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 6 Feb 2018, at 14:19, Randall Gellens wrote:
>
>> When composing a new message, MailMate shows each recipient as an
>> entity.  Is it possible to edit a recipient?
>
> Double-click or hit space when it's selected brings you into edit 
> mode.
>
>> For example, if there is a typo in one?  Similarly, what is the best
>> way of selecting a recipient to delete or move to another field?
>
> Use the keyboard or the mouse to select 1 or more recipients and then
> use copy/paste or drag'n'drop.
>
>> On a more esoteric note, it would be nice if MM could normalize
>> recipients names that are in annoying Outlook format, e.g., change
>> 	“Bozo, Fred” <fred.bozo at example.com>
>> To
>> 	Fred Bozo <fred.bozo at example.com>
>
> MailMate cannot do this automatically. It's extremely hard 
> (impossible?)
> to correctly identify the various parts of a “name”. Also, you 
> have
> to assume that if your correspondent uses this format then it's 
> probably
> what they prefer to see when they get a reply.
>
> MailMate could display the names differently (without altering them 
> when
> replying/forwarding), but I really mean it when I write that it's
> extremely hard to do this reliably :) As as simple example, someone
> might use this: "PhD Nielsen, Benny" and it would become "Benny PhD
> Nielsen".
>
> -- 
> Benny
> https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:01:36 +0100
> From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist at freron.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] option to automatically jump to first unread
> 	message of thread
> Message-ID: <C50055B6-D61E-4730-A944-2992409130FA at freron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 6 Feb 2018, at 17:25, Eric Sharakan wrote:
>
>> Hi, I often deal with long-running email threads at work.  I have
>> Organize by Thread enabled for my work Inbox, and as I'm going 
>> through
>> my unread messages in the morning, when I get to an old thread with
>> new correspondence, I'm taken to the beginning of the thread rather
>> than the first unread message.  Is there a preference to change that
>> behavior?
>>
>> I already have a smart mailbox that includes only unread messages, 
>> but
>> I don't like using it, as I prefer to have the option to review
>> previously read messages in case I need the additional context.  I
>> also know there's a hotkey I can use to jump to the next unread
>> message, but was just wondering if perhaps there was a preference to
>> make that be the default behavior.
>
> I'm not sure how that would work if you're not asking for “next
> unread”. How are you selecting this thread?
>
> What you really need is probably a different threading mode (which has
> been on my todo forever) which allows you to display the newest 
> message
> at the top of the thread.
>
> -- 
> Benny
> https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:19:56 +0100
> From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist at freron.com>
> To: blogs at torrecillas.com, "MailMate Users"
> 	<mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] quoted-printable
> Message-ID: <BE9302BC-BF71-4013-B817-F2FDE1EE92E8 at freron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> On 7 Feb 2018, at 18:59, Daniel Torrecillas wrote:
>
>> Sorry, I meant to preface my question with this:
>>
>> I don't mean to make noise and I absolutely don't want to propose a
>> change to the default behavior. **I believe in the designed way and
>> it's adherence to the relevant standards.**
>
> Thanks for that :)
>
>> I only looked into this issue when someone that reads my email
>> *exclusively* on their iPhone with Mail.app complained about the
>> seemingly arbitrary line breaks.
>
> I just tried reviewing some of the emails on this mailing list on my
> iPhone and I don't see any arbitrary line breaks. Are you absolutely
> sure about this?
>
>> To please them, I would consider composing `quoted-printable` or
>> `base64` email only to them, if given the option in MailMate.
>
> Ok, I'll consider a hidden preference to disable format-flowed, but 
> I'd
> like you to first investigate the problem a bit more. Maybe something
> else triggers the arbitrary line breaks, for example, maybe your
> correspondent has an IMAP service which some times rewrites emails.
> Perhaps he could do something similar to “Message > Forward as
> Attachment”  in order for you to make sure the email hasn't changed 
> in
> transmission.
>
> -- 
> Benny
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 11:30:54 +0100
> From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist at freron.com>
> To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate at lists.freron.com>
> Subject: Re: [MlMt] Inconsistent message thread display
> Message-ID: <FC990813-1CE0-47D3-AEB6-AF0C52E7D72B at freron.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> On 10 Feb 2018, at 20:02, Topher Buck wrote:
>
>> | From | To | Subject     | Date       | Msg ID |
>> |------|----|-------------|------------|--------|
>> | X    | Y  | foo bar     | 2018-02-06 | 5597   |
>> | Y    | X  | Re: foo bar | 2018-02-07 | 6414   |
>> | X    | Y  | Re: foo bar | 2018-02-08 | 6137   |
>> | X    | Y  | Re: foo bar | 2018-02-09 | 6321   |
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> I don’t understand why View > “Organize by Thread” does not
>> group all four messages together in the same way that clicking the
>> “Thread” toolbar button does. Can anyone explain that behavior? 
>> As
>> you can see, I have included the message IDs here, and I note that
>> they do not increase monotonically in chronological order (as I would
>> have predicted). That suggests that message ID could play some role
>> and that MM assigns message IDs in some fashion that isn’t obvious
>> to me.
>
> The “Msg ID” is just an internal value which MailMate uses as an
> index. Every new message seen by MailMate gets a “Msg ID” in
> increasing order starting from 1.
>
> Threading is based on the `Message-ID` header and the `In-Reply-To`.
> These are the headers you should be looking for if trying to 
> understand
> how MailMate has threaded the emails (and to determine if it's
> incorrect).
>
>> It also seems like Benny’s statement, “[MailMate uses very strict
>> threading. It only shows two messages as related if they are
>> parent-child.](https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg01927.html)”
>> may apply here, though neither my message ID hypothesis nor “very
>> strict threading” explain the discrepancy in the two options for
>> viewing message threads.
>
> If it's not a bug then “strict threading” should be the 
> explanation.
>
>> On a related note, I would like to register another vote in favor of
>> Scott’s [Feature request - highlighting related messages in a
>> thread](https://www.mail-archive.com/mailmate@lists.freron.com/msg02687.html).
>
> Your vote is noted :)
>
> -- 
> Benny
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