[MlMt] Evaluation results

[Matthew Cawood]

MailMate has been one of my best software experiences in more than a 
decade of using a Mac (Devonthink and Ulysses are also up there. The 
only connection I can see is that they are all based in Europe).

If I want to do something, I find that MailMate usually already does it. 
On the rare occasions when it doesn't, Benny has made it happen. 
Spotlight integration, for example, which I haven't yet used, but which 
is on the way.

MailMate has a few quirks, but nothing that qualifies as more than an 
occasional minor annoyance. The OP has found more pain in MailMate in 
the trial period than I've discovered in months of heavy-duty daily 
usage.

On 19 May 2015, at 17:53, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:

> On 19 May 2015, at 6:36, Andreas Jung wrote:
>
>> I have been using Mailmate for three weeks now - with very mixed 
>> feelings.
>
> Thanks for trying out MailMate and providing feedback in the process. 
> I know it may feel like feedback is some times going into a black 
> hole, but it really doesn't. (I know I haven't replied to all tickets 
> you have created.) I hope you might return to MailMate some day and 
> find that it lives up to your requirements.
>
>> As a longtime Postbox user I've been pissed lately by the bad support 
>> of Postbox
>> Inc and some painful bugs in the stability of Postbox - so I came to 
>> Mailmate.
>
> To be fair, I think Postbox is pretty clear about support only being 
> provided when explicitly paying for it.
>
>> However Mailmate also has tons of minor and major issues. Ok, no 
>> software is
>> bugfree. But the density of minor flaws in Mailmate (that I would not 
>> expect
>> from a 1.9 version) is annoying.
>
> Fair enough. The trial period exists to make sure that show stoppers 
> can be found before buying.
>
>> Some of my highlight bugs:
>>
>> - invalid counters for unread mails for *some* folders
>
> Yes, that one annoys me too, but it was my impression that there was 
> no longer a debug opportunity: 
> https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1119
>
>> - "default columns" do not work as expect, reverting the default 
>> columns
>> for a folder is not persisted properly
>
> Yes, this does not work well for certain standard folder types (sent, 
> junk, ...). Unfortunately, improving this most likely requires a 
> fundamental redesign of how it works and I cannot promise that'll 
> happen soon.
>
>> - being unable to remove an imap folder containing message without 
>> prior
>> removing all mails manually (major usability pain in the ass)
>
> As I stated in [the 
> ticket](https://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/1157-unable-to-delete-imap-folders#ticket-1157-1) 
> I am willing to prioritize this if it's very important to you. I don't 
> see this as a “major usability pain in the ass” since I don't 
> think a lot of users frequently delete IMAP mailboxes containing 
> emails. As also stated in the ticket, it's not a quick fix, because 
> MailMate has multiple checks to ensure that non-empty IMAP mailboxes 
> are never deleted.
>
> There is a hidden preference to enable the “Empty Mailbox” menu 
> item for all IMAP mailboxes. That might reduce some of the pain:
>
> 	defaults write com.freron.MailMate MmEmptyMailboxMenuItemEnabled 
> -bool YES
>
> (I think it only works in the latest test release though.)
>
>> - incomplete and half-baked implementation of the "mailboxes" 
>> tree...being
>> unable to arrange mailboxes as needed using drag & drop
>
> There is certainly potential for improvement in this area.
>
>> - fragile rule engine...hard to debug why email rules work sometimes 
>> and sometimes
>> not
>
> For debugging, I recommend creating a smart mailbox with the same 
> conditions as used by the rule. That should make it easy to see what 
> is matched and what is not matched.
>
>> - usability issues with the signing and encryption UI where the 
>> signing/lock icons
>> are set or enabled when it does not make sense (e.g. no key available 
>> for a recipient)
>
> Yes, this could be more flexible. Currently, it simply errs on the 
> safe side. It would be worse if it silently did not sign/encrypt when 
> the user expected to be warned if it was not possible.
>
>> Most of the issues have been reported as feedback or as bugreports.
>
> And thanks for that.
>
>> What is my point?
>>
>> Mailmate is not a bad application and I appreciate that the 
>> maintainer
>> cares more about productivity and power-user features than 
>> implementing
>> useless features that nobody needs. However Mailmate has a serious
>> quality assurance problem. A lot of features are only half 
>> implemented
>> and not stable or usable. What is the point? Mailmate costs 45 EURO
>> compared to 15 EUR for Postbox compared to nothing for Mail.app.
>
> Well, you already stated what your problem with Postbox is. I wrote 
> this (and many other replies) for free. Getting the same number of 
> responses from Postbox support would have cost you a fortune ;-) As an 
> added bonus, I've spent time ignoring the use of words such as 
> “ass”, “stupid”, and “suck”. That's not as easy as one 
> might think.
>
> (Oh, and good luck getting feedback replies from Apple.)
>
> I guess feedback should be a two-way street: I don't know about other 
> developers, but I think you would get both more and better responses 
> by toning down your language a bit. I'm certainly not motivated by 
> being told how much this or that suck. I'm perfectly aware of all the 
> bugs and short-comings of MailMate. I am, by far, its worst critic and 
> I have no idea why *anyone* would want to use MailMate. That is also 
> why I continue to work on MailMate. I want it to be good enough to 
> deserve *my own* praise.
>
>> The conclusion is: all mail applications for Mac suck in their own 
>> special
>> way - only the price differs.
>
> I really don't know how to respond to that. If you are in a situation 
> where you need a discount then let me know. I'm not going to lower the 
> price in general. And don't get me wrong. If I was working on MailMate 
> for the money then I would be more stupid than the shortcomings of 
> MailMate are.
>
> Again, thanks for sharing your trial experience with MailMate.
>
> -- 
> Benny
> _______________________________________________
> mailmate mailing list
> mailmate at lists.freron.com
> http://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate