<!DOCTYPE html>
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/xhtml; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body><div style="font-family: sans-serif;"><div class="markdown" style="white-space: normal;">
<p dir="auto">Det er fantastisk Benny! :)</p>
<p dir="auto">I find the requirements they have a bit pedantic but very happy you made it through.</p>
<p dir="auto">And your email got me to check on mailmate patreon and i realized it stopped due to change of credit cards.</p>
<p dir="auto">now renewed! Lets keep mailmate going - without it I would just not use email at this stage ;)</p>
<p dir="auto">/max<br>
<a href="https://xam.dk/about" style="color: #3983C4;">https://xam.dk/about</a></p>
<p dir="auto">On 8 Jun 2024, at 12:21, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid #777777; color: #777777;">
<p dir="auto">Hi MailMate users,</p>
<p dir="auto">most mailing list readers probably missed this, but a couple of months ago I wrote something on the list which deserves a follow-up.</p>
<p dir="auto">On 3 Apr 2024, at 15:27, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:</p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid #777777; border-left-color: #999999; color: #999999;">
<p dir="auto">[...] When I get back, the main priority will be to look into a potential future Gmail issue. The “kill switch” I mentioned in an old blog post might be looming around the corner: <a href="https://blog.freron.com/2015/is-oauth2-support-a-good-thing/" style="color: #999999;">https://blog.freron.com/2015/is-oauth2-support-a-good-thing/</a></p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">Almost half a year ago I got a message from Google informing me that they needed me to do some additional verification steps in order for MailMate users to be able to continue to use Gmail. They told me that I had 90 days to initiate the process -- this naturally meant I ignored it for almost 60 days. When I finally initiated the process, I realized that it would likely require more work than I had anticipated. It also included a deadline:</p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid #777777; border-left-color: #999999; color: #999999;">
<p dir="auto">“You are required to complete a CASA Tier 2 security assessment for your application [...] by the following date: 2024-06-12. This assessment is required annually; to learn more, please visit the CASA website.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">Before going into what this means, I should tell you that I've completed the assessment and MailMate went into the “verified” state a week ago. This should make the MailMate/Gmail combination fairly safe for the next year. To be more precise, the verification expires May 7th 2025.</p>
<p dir="auto">Going forward, I will have to do this every year. This means that every year there is a potential risk of MailMate no longer being able to access Gmail accounts. Google might decide that some feature/language/library used by MailMate is no longer considered safe, or they might come up with some other requirement that I cannot easily satisfy. This is a risk that I somehow need to make sure that users are aware of before buying a license key. I'm still considering how to best solve this problem.</p>
<p dir="auto">The same, by the way, is true for any other desktop email client, but I think it's fair to assume that many of them are “too big to fail”.</p>
<p dir="auto">The rest of this email is for anyone wondering what the assessment is all about and then some random thoughts on the subject. It's a brain dump and probably a bit of a mess :)</p>
<hr style="border: 0; height: 1px; background: #333; background-image: linear-gradient(to right, #ccc, #333, #ccc);">
<p dir="auto">So what is a CASA Tier 2 security assessment? It's mostly questions which are irrelevant to MailMate (and probably most desktop email clients) which means I've been clicking a lot of checkboxes on a website. Most often the options are Yes, No, and Not Applicable. Choosing the last option would trigger a discussion with an assessor which would end with me either changing it to Yes or a note being added to the item in the final “letter of validation”.</p>
<p dir="auto">The most problematic part was a so-called static analysis of the source code. This can be done in a number of ways, but the only one really available to me was a “self scan” using an open source tool. I'll skip the details, but let's just say that this doesn't really work well for an application having code in C, C++, Objective C, Objective C++, Javascript, Ruby, Python, Swift, Bash, and possibly more. Yes, it's a complex app.</p>
<p dir="auto">Scanning code for vulnerabilities is good and I could likely do more to integrate that in my build process. I'm not questioning that. Apple/Xcode/clang warns about insecure/deprecated APIs/functions in the build process and I wouldn't mind if this was extended to also check for known/likely vulnerabilities. Every release of MailMate is also scanned by Apple (after compilation) as part of the so-called notarization process although I think this is mostly about detecting intentionally included malware. Nevertheless, this process is more “real” since I cannot release an update which does not pass these checks. The CASA 2 assessment is based completely on good faith.</p>
<p dir="auto">Other random thoughts on this subject:</p>
<ul>
<li>In relation to Gmail, the most sensitive part of talking to the server is the OAuth2 authentication process. MailMate never sees the user password because that is part of the process. The token used to gain access is stored in Keychain Access (Apple).</li>
<li>Ironically, the whole OAuth2 authentication process is handled by a third party framework. This framework would need to be part of the code scan described above. The framework (AppAuth) is provided by Google. I would therefore be scanning Googles own code. What happens if that has an issue ;)</li>
<li>MailMate is an IMAP client and not a Gmail client. IMAP is how MailMate talks to a huge number of different email servers with different IMAP implementations. In theory, all of them could come up with their own sets of requirements and assessment procedures. Will I eventually be going through processes like this every year for every email provider?</li>
<li>Providing an app with IMAP access to an email account means that the app gets total control of the emails in that account. No code verification process is going to change that. The user has to trust MailMate, and by extension, me.</li>
</ul>
<p dir="auto">That last point is interesting and I would be willing to look into ways that I could strengthen this trust. Using “Little Snitch” is a good way to monitor the behavior of an application like MailMate, but I can think of ways that this would not detect “evil” email client behavior.</p>
<p dir="auto">It's also interesting what would have happened if I had failed to pass the required assessment. Google writes:</p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid #777777; border-left-color: #999999; color: #999999;">
<p dir="auto">“If you do not verify your app, your app will be subject to an ongoing 100 user limit and your app’s consent screen will display the unverified app user interface.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">The “unverified app user interface” would then show you this line:</p>
<blockquote style="margin: 0 0 5px; padding-left: 5px; border-left: 2px solid #777777; border-left-color: #999999; color: #999999;">
<p dir="auto">“This app hasn't been verified by Google yet. Only proceed if you know and trust the developer.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p dir="auto">I would be fine with that in general (if it wasn't for the 100 user limit). With or without Google verification, it requires a lot of trust to let an app access your emails and I would strongly suggest that this is not done lightly.</p>
<hr style="border: 0; height: 1px; background: #333; background-image: linear-gradient(to right, #ccc, #333, #ccc);">
<p dir="auto">Final rant: The worst part of this process might have been the assessment portal. A system which requires you to log in every time you need to write a message and you have to write it in a text field with a login timeout. You do then receive the reply by email (with a subject line just stating “New message posted in thread”), but you cannot reply to that email. You need to log in to the portal again. As an email client developer, it's kind of infuriating not being able to use an email client :)</p>
<p dir="auto">--<br>
Benny</p>
<hr style="border: 0; height: 1px; background: #333; background-image: linear-gradient(to right, #ccc, #333, #ccc);">
<p dir="auto">mailmate mailing list<br>
Unsubscribe: <a href="https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate" style="color: #777777;">https://lists.freron.com/listinfo/mailmate</a></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>