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<div style="font-family:sans-serif"><div style="white-space:normal"><p dir="auto">Thank you for your comments, Bill.</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><p dir="auto">Not if you're using the 2.0BETA series, which has a plethora of controls<br>
for perpetuating a bad idea in the Composer panel of the Preferences...</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I really just wanted an answer, not a political comment on whether or not HTML email is "a bad idea".<br>
HTML email is -a reality- with which one must deal.</p>
<p dir="auto">I started writing code in 1978, and was using email before most people on this list were likely born. I'm not a big fan of HTML email myself, but if I get one, and need to forward it to a client, then the client should see what I saw, not an attachment.</p>
<p dir="auto">Almost every other email client in the world does this.</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">If so, I'm curious as to why, technically. Since MM can show HTML<br>
emails now,</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">When couldn't it?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">It couldn't in the first versions, when I started using it. (Mine was order #63, Jan 12, 2011.)</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><p dir="auto">This is fundamentally problematic because "just forward them" does not<br>
have a well-defined technical meaning other than embedding the full<br>
original message as an attachment.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I was simplifying to express my request clearly.</p>
<p dir="auto">HTML email is a few headers and HTML content. It is not any more complex than a web page, basically.</p>
<p dir="auto">The issue is that when forwarding, MM strips out all the HTML code. Try viewing the source of an HTML email and you'll see what I mean.</p>
<p dir="auto">My point is that the original source is IN the email, else I'd not see it all prettified, eh? So it's there.</p>
<p dir="auto">Why not "just" forward ALL that original source? The head, the tables, the divs, the body... That way the recipient would see what I see.</p>
<p dir="auto">I can understand not doing it for "political" reasons ("all email should be text"). What I don't understand is why it isn't an option. Mail can do it; Outlook can do it; Thunderbird can do it; PostBox can do it... </p>
<p dir="auto">As a programmer with over 40 years of experience, I -can- understand boxing one's self in to a point at which integrating the capability is a huge amount of work. That would be a legitimate reason for not offering it (albeit unfortunate.)</p>
<p dir="auto">But from a USER perspective, not being able to "just forward" HTML email is odd, and from a recipient's standpoint... well in my 4 decades, I've -never- received an email that said "to see the html version, click on the attachment."</p>
<p dir="auto">Best wishes, </p>
<p dir="auto">Tracy<br>
www.valleau.art</p>
<br><br><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#777; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px"><p dir="auto">Message: 2<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 00:02:56 -0500<br>
From: "Bill Cole" <mmlist-20120120@billmail.scconsult.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] forwarding HTML emails<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<487F7308-CEE0-4868-B1BB-C8D8875E407A@billmail.scconsult.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 16 Jan 2018, at 18:00 (-0500), Tracy Valleau wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Hello<br>
Do I take it that forwarding HTML emails can still only be done via<br>
attachment?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">Not if you're using the 2.0BETA series, which has a plethora of controls<br>
for perpetuating a bad idea in the Composer panel of the Preferences...<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">If so, I'm curious as to why, technically. Since MM can show HTML<br>
emails now,</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">When couldn't it? I adopted MM circa v1.5 and my first pestering of<br>
Benny was to work out how to make it easier to config MM to only render<br>
HTML when absolutely needed.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">why can't it (just) forward them?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">This is fundamentally problematic because "just forward them" does not<br>
have a well-defined technical meaning other than embedding the full<br>
original message as an attachment. If you want something else, I *THINK*<br>
the MM options for tweaking HTML forwarding should give you something<br>
you can live with.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Bill Cole<br>
bill@scconsult.com or billcole@apache.org<br>
(AKA @grumpybozo and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses)<br>
Currently Seeking Steady Work: <a href="https://linkedin.com/in/billcole" style="color:#777">https://linkedin.com/in/billcole</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 3<br>
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2018 23:27:00 -0800<br>
From: uncat <uncat@torrecillas.com><br>
To: mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
Subject: [MlMt] Security<br>
Message-ID: <E46D1B6E-31B5-49E0-9076-3299FF3BF061@torrecillas.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii<br>
<br>
Hi,<br>
<br>
I'm interested in trying out MailMate. Questions: Is my password to my email account or my email address stored anywhere? Or sent anywhere? Is there any assurance of that?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Daniel<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:33:57 +0100<br>
From: "Fabian Blechschmidt" <lists-freron-com@fabian-blechschmidt.de><br>
To: blogs@torrecillas.com, "MailMate Users"<br>
<mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] Security<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<5406E8EA-FA32-4EFC-840E-EE807E9ACED6@fabian-blechschmidt.de><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 17 Jan 2018, at 8:27, uncat wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Hi,<br>
<br>
I'm interested in trying out MailMate. Questions: Is my password to my<br>
email account or my email address stored anywhere? Or sent anywhere?<br>
Is there any assurance of that?<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Daniel</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">Hi Daniel,<br>
<br>
I'm only a user, so this answer are only observation - I have no access<br>
to the code.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Is my password to my email account or my email address stored<br>
anywhere?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">The password can (not must) be stored in the Mac OS X keychain.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Or sent anywhere?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">MailMate is not "cloud" - so except the mail server itself I assume it<br>
stays on your machine.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Is there any assurance of that?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I hope Benny will answer your mail too and back me up :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 5<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:05:29 +0100<br>
From: "Jan Erik =?utf-8?q?Mostr=C3=B6m?=" <lists@mostrom.pp.se><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] Security<br>
Message-ID: <E45268A4-6B95-4814-A47F-30406D319D06@mostrom.pp.se><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 17 Jan 2018, at 8:33, Fabian Blechschmidt wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Or sent anywhere?<br>
<br>
<br>
MailMate is not "cloud" - so except the mail server itself I assume it<br>
stays on your machine.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">Except for the obvious thing of logging in to the mail server to<br>
validate that you is you.<br>
<br>
= jem<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 6<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:49:04 +0100<br>
From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist@freron.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] forwarding HTML emails<br>
Message-ID: <DCF22C3A-1681-4AF8-8E9F-D99EF4181A94@freron.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 17 Jan 2018, at 6:02, Bill Cole wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">why can't it (just) forward them?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">This is fundamentally problematic because "just forward them" does not<br>
have a well-defined technical meaning other than embedding the full<br>
original message as an attachment. If you want something else, I<br>
*THINK* the MM options for tweaking HTML forwarding should give you<br>
something you can live with.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">Yes, both 1.10 and 2.0BETA has the ability to embed the original HTML<br>
when needed. This is very similar to what other email clients do except<br>
for the fact that you cannot edit the HTML. If you try then MailMate<br>
tells you that it'll convert it to plain text first.<br>
<br>
It's very tricky (for all email clients) to embed HTML, because HTML<br>
wasn't designed for this purpose. MailMate uses an external CSS inliner<br>
(Premailer) to work around most of these problems, but as previously<br>
discussed on this list then this can be slow at times.<br>
<br>
(The problem of embedding HTML is even bigger for webmail clients.)<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Benny<br>
<a href="https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/" style="color:#777">https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 7<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:51:33 +0100<br>
From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist@freron.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] Security<br>
Message-ID: <E729C362-2504-44A6-8942-DFD518424B4B@freron.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 17 Jan 2018, at 8:33, Fabian Blechschmidt wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Is my password to my email account or my email address stored<br>
anywhere?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">The password can (not must) be stored in the Mac OS X keychain.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Or sent anywhere?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">MailMate is not "cloud" - so except the mail server itself I assume it<br>
stays on your machine.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Is there any assurance of that?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I hope Benny will answer your mail too and back me up :-)</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I back you up. Only thing to add is that one should make sure that SSL<br>
is always enabled such that a password is never sent to the IMAP/SMTP<br>
server in plain text. Note that most proper email servers wouldn't even<br>
allow non-SSL connections.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Benny<br>
<a href="https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/" style="color:#777">https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 8<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:06:11 -0500<br>
From: "Steven M. Bellovin" <smb@cs.columbia.edu><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] Security<br>
Message-ID: <085CDD6B-7115-4C1E-AD47-EF10A6240A76@cs.columbia.edu><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed<br>
<br>
On 17 Jan 2018, at 5:51, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">On 17 Jan 2018, at 8:33, Fabian Blechschmidt wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Is my password to my email account or my email address stored<br>
anywhere?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">The password can (not must) be stored in the Mac OS X keychain.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Or sent anywhere?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">MailMate is not "cloud" - so except the mail server itself I assume<br>
it stays on your machine.<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">Is there any assurance of that?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I hope Benny will answer your mail too and back me up :-)</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I back you up. Only thing to add is that one should make sure that SSL<br>
is always enabled such that a password is never sent to the IMAP/SMTP<br>
server in plain text. Note that most proper email servers wouldn't<br>
even allow non-SSL connections.<br>
</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">What authentication options that don't involve sending passwords does<br>
MailMate support? Is there a way to configure MM to use only one of<br>
these safer options if available? I know that I use it with an IMAP<br>
server that only supports CRAM-MD5 and DIGEST-MD5. There are others<br>
possible, such as client-side certificates. (To the original querier:<br>
if you control your IMAP server, disable plaintext password logins.)<br>
<br>
<br>
--Steve Bellovin, <a href="https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb" style="color:#777">https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 9<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:19:54 -0500<br>
From: Annamarie <annamarie.pluhar@gmail.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] How to get rid of a bad email address<br>
Message-ID: <2A9AA6A1-487C-4671-B7D2-7EB5098973AC@gmail.com><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"<br>
<br>
Many thanks! Proving once again that the answer is a keystroke away. : )<br>
<br>
Annamarie<br>
<br>
<br>
Annamarie Pluhar<br>
802-451-1941<br>
802-579-5975 (iPhone - not good when I'm at my desk.)<br>
<br>
On 16 Jan 2018, at 10:17, John Cooper wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">Annamarie wrote (at 6:31 on 16 Jan 2018):<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#BBB; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#BBB"><p dir="auto">So I have three emails I've sent out that misspell the address...MM<br>
annoyingly finds the misspelled one and uses it. I know I can fix<br>
this by deleting the misaddressed emails in my Sent Folder BUT I need<br>
the record of what I've sent so I don't want to delete them.<br>
<br>
What can I do to stop MM from using the bad one - beside paying close<br>
attention to it?</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">I haven't personally tested these methods, but based on my<br>
understanding of MailMate you have two methods from which to choose:<br>
<br>
1. Move the misaddressed messages out of your Sent folder and into<br>
another folder.<br>
2. Blacklist the incorrect addresses:<br>
<br>
a. Open a message that contains an incorrect address.<br>
b. Right-click the address you want to tell MailMate not to use.<br>
c. Click **Add "<address>" to Blacklist.**<br>
<br>
John</p>
</blockquote><blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">_______________________________________________<br>
mailmate mailing list<br>
mailmate@lists.freron.com<br>
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Message: 10<br>
Date: Wed, 17 Jan 2018 16:44:20 +0100<br>
From: "Benny Kjær Nielsen" <mailinglist@freron.com><br>
To: "MailMate Users" <mailmate@lists.freron.com><br>
Subject: Re: [MlMt] Security<br>
Message-ID: <5A26F29D-26EA-415D-A3F0-A4F3367018C6@freron.com><br>
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On 17 Jan 2018, at 14:06, Steven M. Bellovin wrote:<br>
</p>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid #777; color:#999; margin:0 0 5px; padding-left:5px; border-left-color:#999"><p dir="auto">What authentication options that don't involve sending passwords does<br>
MailMate support? Is there a way to configure MM to use only one of<br>
these safer options if available? I know that I use it with an IMAP<br>
server that only supports CRAM-MD5 and DIGEST-MD5.</p>
</blockquote><p dir="auto">MailMate only supports `CRAM-MD5`. It can be forced to only use this by<br>
editing `Sources.plist` (and `Submission.plist`) to include this for<br>
each account:<br>
<br>
authMechanism = 'CRAM-MD5';<br>
<br>
(`XOAUTH` is also supported for Gmail/Outlook.)<br>
<br>
The only real reason for the lack of support of other mechanisms is that<br>
I implemented it myself instead of using a library which probably<br>
supports more methods (I haven't checked recently).<br>
<br>
Also, most of the servers I have access to only support very few<br>
authentication methods. They don't even support `CRAM-MD5`.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Benny<br>
<a href="https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/" style="color:#777">https://freron.com/become_a_mailmate_patron/</a><br>
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